Here is the long-awaited part two of the discussion on "Tit for Tat" that deals with preferences. I would apologize for not posting for over 10 days or so, but truth be told, there was no way around it.
Work has been brutal and probably will be until the middle of the month, with regular work during the day and some group/seminars here and there in the evening that make it not worth driving home for, so I usually just stay there at work or hang out with co-workers at a restaurant until its time for the various committees to meet.
I'll do what I can to make sure I cover this topic as best I can, and hope that with discussion in the comments section, I can elaborate more and fill in any gaps I didn't take care of initially in this post.
Here is a piece of what I posted in the original topic back on Rachel's Haven.
Also, things like "no she-male" come up, but I'll have a great story in mind where its just a woman in the picture, and the story implies that there are no magical changes .. so is THAT a she-male or crossdressing? If someone is being changed magically, but its a slow change, and the caption is during the middle of the change (which I do tend to make "in the moment" captions), is THAT considered "she-male"?I think we on the Haven are going to have to define more of what "no she-male" means, since I've been seeing that a lot.For me, I consider "she-male" to imply either a dick-girl that is naked with female features (like boobs and hips) and showing off the male genitalia pretty prominently in the image, or more of a drag queen persona that will NOT be removing their dick and balls and incorporates both into their sexuality.
What I highlighted in the quotes often puts me in a quandary .. am I following someone's preferences if I am leaving them not quite finished in the groinal region? I don't usually use actual "she-male" models in captions and tend to use non-nude images so THAT wouldn't violate their preferences .. but if the change isn't quite complete, or I'm leaving it vague as to whether they'll keep their male bits .. is THAT considered a "she-male" or "Crossdressing" caption?
Perhaps what it comes down to is the preference for the picture or for the scenario/plot. Both? Neither? I'm not quite sure so its another one of those things I'd like to have people ruminate upon.
For me, I think I want the model to look female, but at this point in time, I don't necessarily mind still having male bits in the story line, as long as I can't see them in the image. The caption above represents this quite nicely. Many people (including the recipient) really liked the caption, even though they all mentioned "they don't like partial changes." which leads me back to the initial question!
DISCUSSION QUESTION: What do YOU think when people mention NO "she-male" and/or "crossdressing" in their preferences? How would someone clarify their position and should they do so? Is their apprehension more of a plot issue or an aversion to certain images and what that entails?
I can always tell its a great conversation when instead of typing out my reply in the comment box, I open up Word (And yes, I'm typing this up in word right now).
ReplyDeleteI know there is a whole spectrum between all male, and all female. On the more 'masculine' side is cross dressing. Wearing women's clothing and using a few other enhancements to make them seem like a woman for a short period of time. Nothing permanently changed. We've talked about this word usage before, but I think of 'sissy' as more than mere cross dressing. Its taking a female attittude all the time. Looking at oneself as female, and trying to portray yourself as such. To me a sissy can be just dressing up, or can have more surgical or 'magical' changes like breast enhancement (or creation), voice changes, lipo, or ass/waist enhancements. Shemale, like sissy, isn't a set thing. To me a shemale only requires two things... breasts and a penis. But this can be a man that had breasts inserted on himself and nothing else, or it can be female in every way possible (physically and mentally), but just male genetalia instead of female genetalia.
So when I hear people say 'no crossdressing', I know more of what they are looking for. But 'no shemale' to me is far more vague for the reasons you bring up. But then again it is rare for me to consider it in the way you do Dee, as I tend to write more. If I have the subject moving toward a complete transformation, I generally write that part in.
When I see someone actually write out 'no shemale' and 'no cross dressing' I tend to leave those aspects out completely. If I have the transformation in the cap itself, it's a faster transformation. What I tend to think is that these peoples preferences are, is to be completely transformed into a woman. I think if the story is written correctly, then they wouldn't mind temporarily being a shemale as part of the transformation. But caps rarely are written long enough to really experiment with that. The closest example I can think of is the cap I made recently for Angel (Cassandra at the Haven). She says she wants full transformations only, but I had her be only cross dressing in one panel, a shemale in the next panel, and then the transformation was complete in the last (third) panel.
I don't think there is an easy way to make that clear in their preferences without writing up a long paragraph on the subject. Because you're right... they may want to avoid any images associated with shemales. They may want male2female transformations only, with nothing inbetween. I can picture different people having different issues. Plot, pic, part of a full transformation.... any one or combination of these may be part of their aversion.
The only thing that we REALLY know is that they don't want the transformation to END with them being a shemale.
"Sissy" is another one of those terms that can be vague and everyone has their own definition of it. I would tend to have it be more on the masculine side of things as it pertains to what you've said. A sissy situation has to have an embarassment or some humiliation built into it or its more crossdressing than anything else. Usually, the scenario has a male trait still being prominent, though the actions and appearance are hyper-feminine.
ReplyDeleteWhen people say "no crossdressing" I think they mean "I want physical changes, and to be at least coerced into wearing female clothes". Those physical changes are usually complete from male to female.
You are right that you usually provide much more of a story than I do. I think people that can extend the story in their mind beyond what I've provided tend to enjoy my captions moreso than those that need to be lead by the hand.
The above caption is a prime example. I LOVE the fact that I only gave the situation as it was RIGHT THEN. What did he do to be in that spot? I HAVEN'T A CLUE! Maybe he misbehaved .. maybe his wife is a complete bitch .. maybe this is something they do for fun! Doesn't matter in the long run, but I'm hoping that the reader fills in the blanks themselves. Then there is what happens next .. does he fail? accidentally or on purpose? What happens on Saturday?
This caption is one of the situations where I pondered the whole "tit for tat" premise .. in that I had a great picture and idea to go along with it. When I started writing, it veered off into him still having his penis (because of the way the model is sitting) and then trying to make it all fit with JPL's preferences.
My tuppen'th, for what it's worth, is that 'no shemale' tends to mean that people don't want some female there with a penis. That is, they'd prefer not to see a penis on the female models that are being used to denote any particular changes. I also see that many people are rather inconsistent in their application of such terms and what they're actually after is some form of wish fulfilment rather than a particular set of criteria to be fulfilled.
ReplyDeleteI've not been on the Haven all that long and my activity is on the dormant side but I get the impression that most people are 'woolly' in how they approach their preferences, perhaps deliberately so, in order to maximise the wish-fulfilment they gain from the captions. Looking to myself for an example I know that I would say things like 'no shemales' because I'm not a fan of male genatalia. However, if someone were to produce a good caption that happened to use an image of a shemale, penis protruding, I would probably enjoy it just the same and even say so. Here my preference would be 'woolly' to allow creative types to offer their own method of dealing with something.
The same gose for terms like 'sissy' in that I have seen so many different ways to interpret it that the meaning has changed for me (bear in mind that as a UK resident I was largely unaware of the term until finding Fictionmania in 98) but it is a term that I tend to avoid using as a consequence.
Given the nature of captions on the Haven I'm a little confused by the idea that people would say something like 'no crossdressing' as it would surely be the case that such an activity would be implicit in virtually every scenario that you care to name. However, I guess it makes sense in the ones that are looking for more transformational aspects of the captions - that is, they want a more complete transformation than merely wearing clothing designed for the opposite gender or want to maximise the use of females in the captions rather than obvious males in different clothes (again with the wish fulfilment).
I'm in danger of babbling incoherently at this point, so I'll stop here.
The Haven is much more geared towards "magic" captions where there is coercion and they are "forced" to become women. Revenge, mistaken wishes, shit luck are all methods of change that people enjoy there.
DeleteI HAVE noticed though that on blogger and other blog sites, non-forced captions, or more sissy or cross-dressed based plots in captions, seems to resonate more. Blogs that focus more on that seem to have many more members than magical TG .. though explicit trumps both from what I've seen out there!
Which leads me to wonder if I should start making more caption trades with people on Blogger when I wish to get my non-magical and crossdressing/sissy captioning freak on. Perhaps try to get those people onto the Haven? Both?
Don't be afraid to babble! I much prefer that to silence!
Before I became an active member at the Haven, I was very active at the Sanctuary . That community is more based on CD and TV unlike the Haven where you mostly see complete change caps. That was one f the reasons why I switched over to Rachel’s Haven. At that time the Sanctuary got flooded with caps of she-male caps as a few new members were allowed to post 50 or more caps in a row. Since their system has a topic where you can see the 20 most recent caps your new caps were quickly relocated far back in the pages so that I almost got no views on what I just posted.
ReplyDeleteHowever the main reason I switched over was the more active caption trading community at the Haven as the Sanctuary has a more active forum.
When I say that I don’t like shemales or crossdressing, it’s not that I don’t want to see that in a cap. If it is a step into a complete change than it is OK as it can be used to show the moment where you got changed or why you got changed. I just don’t wish to end as a shemale or getting stuck as a crossdresser.
However I wouldn’t mind if a shemale was the one who change me as s(he) was extracting my male energy. Also crossdressing wouldn’t be so bad if it would somehow call forth a change into a complete woman (magical clothes, caught wearing female clothes which cause someone to change my body to fit those clothes)
So I agree that posting ‘shemale’ and ‘crossdresser’ as dislikes is really vague. But how should you then explain it in a few words?
I think the "how you should explain it in a few words" might be another topic to discuss. I'll try to work something up this week!
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