Wednesday, March 21, 2012

"tit for tat" .. and Baby It's Cold Outisde


Not that most of you were in any sort of suspense at all, but here is what "tit for tat" was, as posted in my trading folder. I will expand upon it after I quote the original posting:
ANYWAY! Here it goes!

WHAT I AM LOOKING FOR: People interested in trading captions with me. You don't have to make a caption for me until I make one for you, in fact, its probably the for the best that I make one first, so that I can make sure there is no creative pressure on me .. AND in case a metric shit-ton of people reply I won't be frantic to fix a caption debt.

THE CATCH: Well, it is not exactly a catch. My main concern recently has been that people are making their preferences WAY too narrow. I understand some things like "I LOVE being a blond!" and "NO male genitalia!" (I follow that one myself.) but some prefs are so stringent, I can't imagine that they'll have a multi-page trading folder a year from now. If you want to receive captions, you need to be a bit flexible in what you wish to receive.

THE PITCH: I will be using this post as a list of probable caption recipients over the next month or so. If you wish to be a part of this, then reply to this post, and list one or two things that you do NOT want in your caption from me. If you say "no anal" and "no she-male" then don't get mad if I make you a heavily tattooed cock-sucking Asian red-headed MILF. I will still try to follow a general "feel" of what you like, but if I see a good picture for you and want to turn you into a sissy, then I want to have the freedom to do so, and not stifle what comes out to fit a narrow set of preference guidelines.

This is a little experiment. I don't mind if it fails, since I enjoy a bit of a challenge. Not only is it an experiment for me, but hopefully it might open up a world for some that view captions in a limited scope. Never thought about being a she-male .. hey, maybe this caption leads to something you never thought you'd like.  Becoming a domme with a bunch of submissive lesbians in you thrall? Could be right up your alley!

This will go both ways .. hence the name "tit for tat" .. My two "DO NOT WANT" things are "no male genitalia" and "no women over age 35-40".

The main thing I want to say is .. its STILL going to be a Dee caption. Don't expect something else at all. They may be tame, or naughty, or whatever .. but they might not fit ALL your preferences.

Dee

PS. If you want to just do a normal trade with me, that is also perfectly fine. Just let me know or make me a caption. I usually make cap returns in a timely fashion.
I did some responses to others replies. I will elaborate a bit more after each quote.
The main point of this offering is that I don't want to have to match ALL of someone's preferences. If I have a story in mind, and find a picture that matches much of the person's preferences, but she's got short blonde hair and is skinny .. as opposed to the person liking LONG RED HAIR and BIG BOOBS .. I can just write the story I want to write.
There are quite a few newbies (and some others) who have VERY detailed preferences, in so much that they list not only their desires, but list elaborate set-ups for each of their character persona. Alectra wondered if I was sort of referring to her in my comments. Alectra wasn't at the top of my thought process, but she is one I think falls under what I was talking about. Here is my reply to her:
Actually I was referring to you a bit. I know you fairly well ... but if I was a newbie here, I would look at all the paragraph's you've posted in your preferences, and the number of scenarios and personas you list, and I would probably just move on to someone that I would consider easier to caption. I wouldn't even take the time to read it all.
There is hopefully A LOT of things to discuss  in the comments section here on Dee-lusions of Grandeur .. so fire away down below. There is also another topic that has been brought up by my 'tit for tat" posting which I will discuss hopefully sometime within the next few days here.

Caitlyn (welcome back sweetie!) made a comment in the last post that I thought was pretty spot on, and does highlight what I mentioned above:
I know that the people that have the most stringent requirements are the hardest to cap for... I like to think I'm treading some new ground when I'm capping people, but when the cap needs to be them transforming into a dominant, blonde, shemale, asian, leather wearing, whip wielding, person who is transformed by their girlfriend while they are at work using a gypsies curse... there isn't to much new ground to tread!
When you have a certain fixed (and set in stone) grouping of suggestions for others to make captions, it truly limits what others can come up with. I love making captions, but if I need a friggin flow chart to make sure I'm following the guidelines set forth by the recipient .. I might as well just caption the 10-12 people I know the best, since I know what they'll like. Even more, if I am creating something a bit off the beaten traditional path, I am much more likely to make one for a person I know that APPRECIATES something unique.

At some point soon, I am going to do an overhaul of my preferences, and perhaps prune them considerably. In wanting to "help" other captioners, I'm not sure if I have hindered their creativity by giving them scenarios about things I like. Perhaps I'm better off in telling people what I don't want, and even limiting that list to make it as sparse as possible. Maybe a more balanced approach can bridge the gap between stifling a persons muse and providing a spark of direction. 


DISCUSSION QUESTION: Where do you fall on this debate in regards to how strict a person's preferences should be? For instance, my "persona" is pretty much .. "Dee as a female name, even if a goth  ... Dee Dee is you are making me a bimbo or drag qeeen/sissy/she-male." since I consider Dee to just be me in female form. Others have a much more detailed guide to each persona. Jennifer mentioned this issue in her post last night in regards to a birthday caption she made for Simone. How much is too much information?

21 comments:

  1. :( But, but... If I tend to be nice from what I receive! Besides all the characters information, is for the reader amusement... It's an addedum, which means under some fixed points in every persona (really just two or three as much as that) you can play Scrabble with them! :)

    Maybe I'm a bit too much specific, but that's because my personality drives me to be detailed. I think more or less Alectra, Raffside, Shiori... now Calliope *giggle* Next year party will be a blast! haha... - Where was I? Ah yes they fall for over simplistic traits such as Alectra the domme/sub. Raffside the multi Bimbo type. Shiori just for Hentai subtype... not really used. And now Calliope for the cute scenario.

    Think of what I put in the information in the addendum as profiles! :)

    Overall, I think caps that involves personality split issues are harder to devise in a story, because not everyone is able of that...

    As for what you ask.

    Well the more information shared the better in my opinion. Just as always that the tgied in this case consent that the secondary information is said in a story. Such as personal conversations, behind the cap, how much you know that person, etc.

    Hugs and Kisses Alectra

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    1. I hope it didn't seem like I was picking on you, but I figured that you wouldn't mind the discussion.

      I just did a quick look at your profile and pasted it into Microsoft Word. You have 1551 words in your preferences, and another 150 in an addendum underneath.

      I think mine might be too limiting to people, and I'm at 523 words in my preferences.

      I just wonder if *WE* are actually writing captions for other people instead of letting them do all the "hard work".

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    2. Good point. Well I don't felt like that, but like an example of what you tried to explain. I don't feel bad at all!

      And well if you look at my blog under my persona(s) page there is more. 678 more to be precise hehe And there will be more now that Calliope has been born... well not till someone decides to make her alive! :)

      Hugs and Kisses Alectra

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  2. I don't really know what is best.

    Preferences should be preferences. Just to tell that you are open to everything makes it as difficult as making narrow and very specific guide lines.

    Making a trade caption should at least be a bit personal. You shouldn't just be able to exchange the name and then give it to one or to another one you make a caption for. I have read and commented on many captions at the Haven. Some of them aren't even with the name of the one who should be capped! That's a bit lame for a trade caption, don't you agree?

    I prefer when there are some guidelines which still leave much for the imagination. If the guidelines are too strict, then it will be very difficult if you want to trade more frequently with that same person. Variety is what make captioning fun. If the prefernces are too strict, you just can't do anything different then being repetitive all over the time.

    I know that Alectra's intention is to guide the caps into a wished-for direction. She like to have those different personas and if you read those preferences you have the impression that they are very strict. That makes you unsure if the cap you make is really what Alectra is looking for. I have capped her a lot and have played around with those personas as I have used the simplistic traits of them. Until now Alectra seemed to have liked my caps.^^

    However Alectra isn't the only one which such detailed preferences. Just like Dee, I'm using her as an example since I know that Alectra is open for discussion, or not? (Don't crack your whip at me if you din't wish to be put in latex by me in my next cap:))

    But leaving everything for your imagination is not so good as well since what kind of caption are you looking for? A bit of imformation is at least giving you a direction where you should go for making a trading caption,or not?

    Lately I have posted some scenarios I like. However they are still vague and I think that they still leave much for a variety in the caps. And those scenarios should only exhalt the imagination and shouldn't be used as a restriction.

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    1. Its probably about finding a happy medium I suppose.

      I remember reading your preferences awhile back, but honestly, I know more about you from the comments you make on other captions and things you've said in posts overall. It'd be interesting to see what you've posted lately and see if it is in sync with what I have in mind for you.

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    2. Well that's interesting, because in the net you don't have any other way of knowing the other but through comments.

      In Sociology I learnt that society picks on individuals to assume that they this way or the other. I mean they analyze their way of talking, gesturing, walking, thinking, meeting, eating, expressing themselves. In reality but the Net just only lets you analyze the other under some circumstances and not really with a 100% thruth.

      So what if someone is telling you this or that, and actually that's not true. Sure you can tell at some point the thruth but till then it just too late. You just formed an opinion on this individual and it will be difficult to change that back!.

      So thats leaves me with the option to know that commenting alot is the only way to know for sure that person. Commenting is the vehicle to know what that person could not be telling you explicitly.

      Such is one of the reasons I keep repeating that line in the Introductions section. We want to know what you really want, but for that you have to comment!

      Hugs and Kisses Alectra

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  3. Oh no! On the contrary

    I'm open for discussion and I'm glad that Dee put me into the matter.

    Now that I remember Caitlyn said the first time she capped me that I had some contradictory points, such as Having Alectra and then Pablo remembering everything. Therefore I had to go and make some changes and explanations.

    My preferences are a mix of what I like and how I devised my personas. Profiles + Preferences. I know if that this isn't clearly stated, we have the fright of a newcomer not wanting to cap me but that's fine. I'm not only here to fulfill my wish but for others...

    In my opinion, I prefer to have some directions, otherwise I feel a bit lost (more than lost in translation!) I prefer to have huge guidelines, some kind of route in order to not make a mistake. In this case... Simone, Evie and Jennifer comes to mind as well as Victoria which is a bit in synch with my preferences.

    So for what I can tell...

    What is really to create a story and use imagination? Should I be stripped off my desires and let the other devise something he/she will be comfort with? Am I giving too much room then? Have I lost my opportunity of telling how Am I really like? Is Imagination equal to I'll do with you whatever I feel like today? Such questions comes to mind when looking at this matter.

    Part of the reason I created a blog is to let my own imagination wander with my characters. And Honestly after +300 I don't feel my imagination has been compromised.

    In my defense I will tell you that I don't consider imagination the following statement:

    Magic clothing + plot + woman + end...

    So where is the backstory? Who's That guy or woman? How that magic clothing appeared and why? I've seen that kind of story, many, many times. And once again I consider that Lack of imagination.

    To my preferences I want my characters to feel alive. I want them to have real names, real personalities, real needs and a purpose in life. That's the way I make captions! Some other times, I just found that others create the story and just fill it with and insert_your_name_here which turns out to be a nobody and lifeless.

    So then Am I locking my own name over an universe? Yes.
    Am I letting you wander around my universe? Yes.
    Am I letting you to play with my universe? Yes.
    Am I letting you tweak my characters? Yes, as long as you introduces something that amuse me.
    Am I making you unable of doing whatever you feel it with my character? Well Yes and No. If you feel like breaking a rule to my stated don't like, then don't do it. To anything else, I'm not forcing you to introduce something new

    Hugs and Kisses Alectra

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  4. I think the debate on how strict a person's preferences should be is really up to what the person wants. If the person honestly only wants to be transformed into a dominant, blonde, shemale, asian, leather wearing, whip wielding, person who is transformed by their girlfriend while they are at work using a gypsies curse, then they should stick by their guns. But they should also expect that very few captions will meet that requirement. If they want a wide variety of caps, then their preferences should be shorter.

    I have found very few people that can hit my preferences just the way I want them to be hit. When I first started getting caps I listed out a lot of preferences, and when I got my first few caps they were good... but to be honest they didn't really hit my list like I thought they would. I edited my preferences to more closely match what I wanted, and still didn't get a close match.

    I was disappointed as I thought I was laying out what I wanted fairly clearly. Now don't misunderstand me.... I enjoyed all the caps I got. It helps that I don't have a lot of things that I don't enjoy, and even fewer things that I dislike or won't accept. I think I only received one cap that I didn't enjoy. And honestly, that was because it didn't use my name(s). But once I dropped my preconception of what a good cap was, and started really reading and getting into the caps people made me without thinking of how it matched my perfect scenario, I found that I really liked them. They opened new doors for me, and led me down paths that I didn't expect to enjoy.

    I've whittled my preferences down last year to two levels. One just includes my male name, my race, and me keeping my memories. If someone starts out with me being an Hispanic man named Raul and kills off my memory, then I won't like it. The other set of preferences has a little more detail, but not a lot. I then include 4 other things that I really get a kick out of (oral, brides, office, and having to fool someone that I knew previously. I don't include dislikes as I honestly don't have any dislikes strong enough to list.

    And I agree that if you don't have much listed, then it can be equally hard to cap. Like Nadine, I want the cap to be personal, and if the person doesn't have anything listed, then I don't feel its personal.

    About getting preferences from comments... I don't know if I would use that over what someone lists as their preferences. I may make a quick nice comment that doesn't hit any of my preferences. But that doesn't mean I want anything in that comment to happen to me. For example if a cap depicts someone going through a willing transformation and falling in love, I may comment 'Oh she looks so happy! Great cap!' But that doesn't mean I want a willing transformation for myself.

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    1. As time has gone on, my tastes in what I receive for captions have infinitely expanded. There are probably things that I would NOT have liked to receive back 3 years ago that I find pleasing to read now.

      And the comments thing .. I think its hard enough to get people to comment at any point, so if I see someone posting a comment about a caption that they (1) didn't make or (2) didn't receive .. I would tend to think that they do like something about it, whether its the picture, genre, or plot. I mean, occasionally I am trying to be supportive and the comment is driven by that, but on the whole, if I go out of my way to comment, its because I like something in it.

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  5. After reading this, I went thru my own preferences and ran them thru a word count: over 800 words.

    I think part of the reason I made mine so detailed is because I want people to be clear on likes and dislikes. I feel I get captions from people who don't get it right no matter what is said. Quite a few captions in my folder at the haven have me in them but I don't actually get transformed. It gets frustrating and I've tried to revise them to give people some idea on things I like.

    Admittedly, I also don't like vague preferences. If they are too general then you miss the point or don't get a picture of what someone REALLY likes. Like Dee, I learn more from people's comments and my interaction with them than I do from a preference list. I usually have the most trouble capping people who have very general preferences or who's preferred tropes fall too much out of my comfort zone.

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    1. There are some people that make their captions and whoever is next on their list to receive one get plugged into what they have there, regardless of whether it fits or not. I guess if I had my choice, I'd rather them parrot my little scenarios then do that, but if they are taking that little effort, its never going to be good caption.

      Vague preferences can be a bane when you are trying to make something for another person, especially someone you don't know well at all, but as long as you can get a rough outline, like "workplace situations, magic, blond" I find that more workable than a diatribe of "I want to be a blond, but if its a magical situation than the blond has to be small busted and wearing an apron, unless you have a celebrity blond, then I can have big boobs, mostly if I'm on a beach." Whipping up an elaborate flowchart is NOT how I want to create a caption.

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  6. For year's my pref's were pretty straight forward, I don't think they are too detailed, or not enough detail. I'm not saying that if someone reads them, they will make a cap for me that knocks my socks off, I'm just saying I think It's just enough info to get you pointed in the right direction.

    But a year or so back, after year's of capping and getting capped, and reading them, I decided to add some detail to what i enjoy and what I'm looking for. It was right after I had read, not one, but TWO caps that, to this day still curl my toes. Sadly, they weren't for me! And it made me think, Maybe i'm not that clear on what I'm after. I've received some outstanding caps, and some have curled my toes, but not near as many as you might think.

    So, I added a huge description to my prefs and still couldn't come up with the right words that would explain it simply enough. By the end of it, I had wrote up so much, I had to edit it because it exceeded the post length at the haven. Once I was finished editing it down, I still went ahead and posted it because I was excited at the thought of receiving something like those two caps i read.

    But, It was just TOO big! I think I took it down with in a week, even though Dee said that she liked what she saw, I didn't feel like it was going to point people in the right direction, it was just going to scare people off. I know a huge wall of text has very nearly scared me off in the past, so i was sure it would scare off others.

    I still think about editing my pref's though, even just to see what people could come up with and if there's a noticeable difference between the pref's I've had for years, to the new set that might, or might not hit the mark.

    I've also thought about adding in some of my favorite caps and story's I've read over the years, just to give people an idea of what's really pushed my buttons. I haven't though, because,

    1: I don't want to insult anyone that's made me a cap or have made a cap I've and they don't see it listed in my list.

    2: I think it might be too restrictive, in that everyone will always try to emulate those caps I listed, and pretty soon all I get back is the same thing. It could get very boring, very fast.

    3: Doing a bit of homework, just to scratch my itch, might be just as off putting as a huge wall of text trying to explain what I like and don't like.

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    1. The reason I liked your long form prefs, even though you are right in that it would probably scare people off, was that it WAS VERY YOU. If only we could all be so self-aware! It was a complete Encyclopedia Jennifica.

      Re: Button pushing captions posted

      I do agree with you about not wanting to insult anyone in particular if any of their captions don't make your list AND that people might just try to create a knockoff. One thing I think might help the average captioner looking to find what presses your buttons though, and both you and I do this on our blogs, is highlight our favorite captions that WE'VE created and explain WHY we really enjoy them. I think it brings another viewpoint for people to think about.

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  7. I know what some of you have felt when reading some caps made for other members. Me too have wished that they were made for me as they really had what pushed my buttons. :)

    I believe that I'm not too strickt with my preferences. Au contraire I think that I checked almost everything in the trading preferences at the Haven. That have surely also caused that I have got caps which didn't really kick at all. But they are still appreciated since I believe that they were made for ME. However I have also got some where the names used didn't fit my preferences at all. That saddens me since then I think that they didn't even take a look at what I like in caps. That's why I posted three personas to be used: Brunette Nadine, Blonde Monique and Asian Natsumi. And lately I have made a topic with some scenarios I like.

    I have made a few caps for Jennifer and hope that they made curl her tose at least a little bit. But just like you, I have got some which really hit hard and they will always be part of my prefered ones. I'm not sure if I have ever caped Caitlyn. I might take a look at her preferences and see if they really are so narrow.

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  8. Ummmm for what I can tell. I think that we are coming to the point of that we want our caps to be specialized. Like taking a Degree on (insert your prefered captioner)

    And reading all the comments, I just can only hope I didn't make a mess with some people caps... never thought about that much. I do have some caps that are my fav ones, and that put me in a lovely state of giggling at them. Honestly I don't want to point them as I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings nor put in a ego trip those that made it for me...

    If by any means I wasn't accurate or missed the point completely then I'm to blame and for that I feel really sorry.

    Then I wonder if the rest of you are looking at me, differently because I'm not American but Spanish which I found at some points to be me out of place. Not really sure on that one, don't mind that. That's just me being sensitive. :)

    And I think It would be good to know, in some manner how is each one of us, looked at in the first place. Like Dee started she thinks she is looked at as goth. But I didn't have that at my first impression. My first impression was DEE is A KNOW IT ALL about pop culture.

    Also Jennifer as lovely person rather than I want to be your sub :) Or Simone as well... Simone as the feminator really, not much to say about that hehe or Caitlyn as the perfectionist and last Nadine more than a boot lover as a Nice person too. In my opinion of course.

    Hugs and Kisses Alectra

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    1. You sure didn't mess up with my caps. Your style is special and I like what you made for me. ^^

      I don't have a prefered captioner. But I have prefered captions. :)

      I'm also from the old world and no American or British as well. So I guess that we are in the same boat. I also sometimes feel out of place as I don't always understand what is meant and I'm sure that my caps show that English isn't my first language at all. I try to improve as much as possible but it is hard.

      You're right that some of us have obtained some kind of image. But that's only normal if you have been around for some time as you show your preferences to the other memebers of the community.

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    2. Well Nadine I said that of feeling out of place, because If we look at the other direction. I've never encountered an American in a spanish (from Spain) forum, not sure in a latinoamerican but certainly not in the first place. Perhaps that happened in a French forum but not sure :)

      Lately I think all the hard working in language paid off, because I could communicate without problems at all and without previous boundaries to a companion in an Erasmus regime in my University :)

      Hugs and Kisses Alectra

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  9. Both of you handle English very well. I would totally SUCK writing captions in any other language than English. In fact, I think that, other than a odd clunker here and there, you both write English better than some of our English captioners!

    I don't want to stray TOO far from the original point of this post, and I think that what Alectra said veered off too far ...

    "Ummmm for what I can tell. I think that we are coming to the point of that we want our caps to be specialized. Like taking a Degree on (insert your prefered captioner)"

    I am not looking for someone to make a caption for me in the style of someone else. I am trying to make sure that I am not writing the caption for them, and giving intricate scenarios in my preferences probably does that. To what degree, I'm not sure.

    That is a major reason why I created this topic, and offered a "tit for tat" trade in the first place. I wanted people to really open up their minds to what they could receive by just choosing TWO THINGS they definitely don't want in a caption made for them. Doing it that way strips out all the unnecessary requests we project upon others and possibly hindering their creativity.

    Its probably not for everyone. This could just be another example of me refusing to be boxed into a pigeonhole, and wanting to color outside the lines.

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    1. Ummm I tried to be in the same railroad really but I found some candies along the way... and you know the candies :)

      Well back on topic.

      I wasn't necessarily saying you need to take on the style of another captioner, but to specialize on the captioner we pretend to caption. Likewise the same situation for those that want to caption us I think those that have similar tastes tend to fall into this road. Many times, we have seen people saying: So I'll do this caption for you because I find that your tastes are in synch with mine. Once again, I'm not really sure if I'm I writing a caption with my preferences.

      I'm not pointing out scenarios but traits... okay that's leaves roughly 75% for the captioner... I'll probably have to work on that.

      Maybe working with pre-traits leads to think that the scenario is set:

      e.g: A mistress cannot be seen in a Walmart :) So why? Maybe she's the one in charge and is selling products to help feminize the entire country and... okay weird scenario hehe

      And your "tit for tat". I think I tried that before on my own... Working around with things I may not like but that could have some room to start a like for them. So far: Last year I introduced Sissy scenarios and Crossdress. Probably due to Steffiemariechen arrivals :)

      Honestly This was by far the most interesting topic you have done ever Dee. In my opinion :D

      And it happens to me to think: What if we concede in a special contest?. Do whatever you feel like for me. No restrictions, go hot wild!

      That could lead if properly done to two situations. Assuming the idea was a blast amongst the captioners:

      1. Lots of caps with poor, low, horrible, excruciating, distasteful, etc. In accordance to your tastes.

      2. SO it happened that you got lots of different ideas from a myriad of caps and even though some of the scenarios wasn't listed by you. Definitely grew on you.

      Of course that if we take both extremes.

      Now my question would be: Who would want to take that step?

      Hugs and Kisses Alectra

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  10. I'm also more inspired to make a cap when I just can let my imagination wander around when I'm writing a cap. Mostly the finished product is not what I intended when I began with a pic and an idea for it. To narrow guidelines makes it harder as you are somehow obliged to stay in line if you wish to please the one who you cap.

    I have sure posted some scenarios I like in my preferences. But I believe that they are vague enough that they leave enough room to make very differnt captions.

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  11. @ Nadine

    You have made some caps Io really enjoyed, everyone posting here has made something I've enjoyed. I just didn't want to list names or list the title of the cap, because I might hurt someone's feelings if I forgot them.

    @ alectra

    You are so sweet. *kisses* ^_^

    I would rather receive something made for me, instead of exactly tailored to my prefs. For example, there was a pregnancy caption someone had made me, and just the way it was done pushed a couple of buttons for me. Nothing in my prefs suggests I liked pregnant caps, But the tone of the caption seemed to understand what I was looking for.

    I also remember a time when I would receive nothing but blow job captions. Now, everyone knows I enjoy that and if done well, I wouldn't mind it at all. But it got to the point where, it seemed like people thought they could just put in a pic of a girl sucking a cock and I would love it. They were very simple and made me think that I was being pigeonholed. I think that was the first, and last time I edited my prefs to try and give people a better idea of what might push my buttons.

    As far as the tit for tat idea, I've done it once before in the past, Though it was slightly different. Someone owed me a 10 part series for one of the many rewards they were handing out for donations over at the haven. But instead of taking a single series for it, I asked for 10 single length caps.

    I would find the pics and told the person one thing I would like to see in the cap, other then that, they could do anything they wanted. They came up with some really fun stuff and some really amazing one's as well, just based on 1 suggestion and the picture I found for it. I know they said that they enjoyed it as well, even saying it felt like a collaboration between us.

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